How Low Can You Go? $3?

The wahm.com writing message board was all a flutter this week when it was leaked as a “secret source” for cheap labor in an outsourcing report. People popped out of the woodwork looking for content to be written for a whopping $3 per 500 words. The responses ranged from horror to non-chalant. Some wahms were outraged, started a “strike” and encouraged othes to “just say no.” Other work at home moms were in defense of the buyers saying that they were smart for being able to market and re-sell the content for a profit. “Don’t like it, don’t write for them” was one response.

My first content writing job was $7 for 400 words, and I’ve done a select few for $5 for 300 words. I don’t want to insult people who take these kinds of jobs, because I know we all have to start somewhere. But honestly, I have mixed feelings about this whole thing.

Being active in both the marketing and writing communities, I can see both sides of the fence and can speculate about how this cheap content is being used. Here’s the gist:

-Buy a set of 10 articles for $30 to $50

-Place articles into a web template and promote the website.

-Resell articles to Associated Content, therefore making your investment $0

-Sell the entire site for a profit of hundreds or even thousands
Are these writers setting themselves up for being painted into a low wage corner? The argument I’ve read in response to this is that people who write for $3 aren’t trying to make a career out of it. Obviously not. But even if content writing is just a “job” wouldn’t you want to make more from it?

For a great look at the Wahm perspective on this issue, check out Jenn Dize’s post at Project Wahm.

And for people buying this content, don’t you want your business and your site to be a good reflection on what you’re selling? Whether it’s an affiliate product or a product you’ve written or a physical product you’re selling, you need quality content. See this post for more on how quality content matters.

I can’t really blame the buyers for wanting to find rock bottom prices on their content. When you’re building sites to flip, the lower you keep your costs, the better. I also can’t blame new writers for wanting to find work and thinking that $3 per article is all there is out there.

What I’d really like to see is writers take these ideas and do it themselves. After all, the most important part of these sites is the content. You’ve got those skills already! A little bit of education and an account at Namecheap and you’re almost there.

I know my audience includes a lot of different types of writers, and some marketers as well….so I’d like to hear your take. Is selling your skills for $3 per article like shooting yourself in the foot? Is buying articles for that rate a recipe for disaster?

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Comments

45 Responses to “How Low Can You Go? $3?”

  1. wordvixen (18 comments.) on December 23rd, 2007 8:04 am

    Tee-hee. That’s exactly what I’m doing. You know all the projects I’m working on? The first is, of course, the craft site. But after I get that started, I’m working on my writer’s site and….. and affiliate site. Probably several actually. And that was exactly my reasoning. If I’m trying to get started writing web content, so someone else can stick it up on a wordpress built site and make money off of it, why don’t I just do it instead? A. I get the income, B. it lets me build my writing skill, C. it could draw clients who see my content or give potential clients an example of my work, and D. since I still have a day job I don’t have to worry about juggling clients to make ends meet (yet).

  2. Hope Wilbanks (40 comments.) on December 23rd, 2007 12:47 pm

    Smart thinking, wordvixen! I get pretty irritated at times when I think about this, too. I understand the reasoning behind the writers who take on these “slave labor” jobs. They’re trying to get started and think that’s the only way to build their name. It really hurts those of us who have created a business around producing quality content at reasonable (and sometimes, yes, expensive) rates.

    One of the things people don’t seem to understand about ghostwriting is that you are giving your work away, with NO strings attached. Isn’t that worth something? Yes, I say it is indeed worth more than most people want to pay.

  3. James Chartrand - Web Content Writer Tips (32 comments.) on December 23rd, 2007 12:47 pm

    I have really strong feelings about this. Wake up, people. Stop supporting sweatshop wages. Working at $3 per article means that you either don’t value yourself enough to think you’re worth more than the worst price going, or you’re plagiarizing like mad to work fast enough to make a living.

    No one can feasibly write 500 words of truly original, good quality content that has been double-checked and edited in less than half an hour, and even that is pushing it. Don’t come back and tell me you can - I write at over 90 wpm with no pauses, breaks or hesitations to even think, and I can’t do it.

    That means that one hour’s work brings in a whole, whopping $6 an hour. That’s below Canadian minimum wage ($8/hr) and damned close to U.S. minimum wage (I think it’s $5/hr, correct me if I’m wrong.)

    This is abusing writers, the labor force, copyrights… Sorry, this is *not* a good thing, unless you’ve cut your rates to support a non-profit org or have taken a volunteer position.

    It’s also a losing affair - at those rates, considering income tax, expenses and cost of goods sold, no one is earning income. It’s digging a hole.

    Lastly - there is no good reason to work at these types of wages. None. None whatsoever.

  4. dawn (1 comments.) on December 23rd, 2007 3:17 pm

    Writing is like any other business. How much do you need to earn to justify your time? Figure out an hourly rate that you need to make and then don’t take jobs that won’t make that rate. At $3 an article you’re LOSING money.

  5. Mike Berry (2 comments.) on December 23rd, 2007 8:43 pm

    I can’t foresee any situation where I would recommend that a writer accept $3 for 500 words. Let’s call that what it is — exploitation. I can’t write a credible article in 30 minutes, and I don’t really think that anyone can, either.

    Buyers will always try to get the lowest price possible. But there is a line where thrifty slops over into a sweatshop mentality. Businesses with that philosophy should be shunned and even ridiculed.

  6. Blondie Writes (3 comments.) on December 23rd, 2007 9:57 pm

    Okay, I have to say something because it has been brothering me for a few days now. I did some rewrites for a client who decided to go with cheap labor from another country. There is nothing wrong with that if that is the content you want. He paid $2 for a 400 word article, forty of them on dogs.

    He got the articles and was horriflied at what he received. He contacted me to rewrite the articles for $2.50. Thinking this was a simple rewrite, I agreed. To my horror, they sucked and had references to things that did not pertain to dogs at all. Thankfully, I know dogs and cats.

    I contacted him and said this was horrible and untrue writing at which time he apolozied and ask if I could make them correct, grammar, sentencing, material and so on. What should have took me one day, took me three days, because I wrote all new articles.

    I had no choice but do the work for this price because it was off of a paid site with reviews. Never again. One client I have now, had simular problems and asked me not to outsource his articles because he had the same situation happen.

    I guess my point is that if you want to pay $3 for a 500 word article. It will not be correct in most cases. If you want quality well reserched articles, pay the price. I would be very leery of buying a flipped wedsite that was done in this fashion.

    Quality comes with a price just as it does in factory’s and any business. If you want a quality product, you have to spend a few dollars.

    Thanks Courtney for letting me say my two cents.

    And by the way, if my spelling or grammar is wrong, it is because I am not stupid or ignorant, I have no spell check here.

    Thanks

  7. Jenn Dize (6 comments.) on December 24th, 2007 5:43 am

    You know, after all of this debacle there were still writers who saw the threads, blogs, etc. and still offered that price. I found that out today, and what can I say? I suppose there will always be people who will take what they can get. I just don’t get the people who see a forum thread saying “this is really low, it’s super easy to get paid more” and STILL contact the low paying people for work. Crazy!!

    Thanks for linking to me Courtney! This made for an interesting couple of days. Onwards and upwards to Christmas :)

  8. Jennifer (9 comments.) on December 25th, 2007 1:43 am

    I think maybe I’m missing something here…I just can’t understand why people from the U.S. bother writing original content for this little. It can’t be for the sample; the type of writing you’re doing for $3 for 500 words can’t be good enough to use as the sample. It’s junk experience, in my opinion. The only way I could see it being worth it is if you’re reselling content or doing a PLR-type deal.

    I write lots of web articles in my business, and I charge a reasonable price for it. There are plenty of people out there who understand the value of really good content. It’s not a hard concept. Good content attracts traffic, encourages people to link to you, builds trust, etc, etc. The benefits go on and on. These writers need to realize there’s a whole market out there for well-paying work, and it’s not particularly hard to get.

  9. LS (23 comments.) on December 25th, 2007 5:10 am

    I didn’t get it when it first started happening and I don’t get it now. I never had to write for $3 an article- not even the first week I started web writing. Why were they claiming that was the best price they could get? I know why they accepted that amount. It’s because women always devalue themselves, and these content predators know that. I don’t, however, understand why the WAHMs got angry when told where and how to make more and still claimed that it couldn’t be done.

    And the ones who were buying the $3 work, well, they’re idiots. They aren’t really businesspeople, they just want to play business. I’ve seen too many of those guys to count. They hear about Web 2.0, they they start fancying themselves businesspeople. Then they immediately try to outsource work because they think that’s what will make them successful. What they aren’t told in all the marketing ebooks and websites they read is that success costs money. Starting a business isn’t cheap, especially if you want to outsource the actual work. If it were cheap and easy everyone would have a successful business.

  10. James Chartrand - JCM Ent. (32 comments.) on December 25th, 2007 11:48 am

    @ Jennifer - People from the U.S.?

    @ LS - Actually, those who buy the $3 are very smart - if you could get the same product for real cheap, wouldn’t you go for what keeps more money in their pocket?

  11. LS (23 comments.) on December 26th, 2007 1:59 am

    We’ll have to agree to disagree. The product will not be the same- it will be worth $3. They are putting out money to buy content that won’t be worth anything. They then have to either use it put out a site that isn’t worth reading and gets them nowhere or they’ll have to pay someone to fix the content. Either way it’s a waste of time and money on their part. That’s not good business no matter how you look at it.

    I’ve outsourced twice- the first time by taking quotes and reading samples. The correlation between the price and the quality was striking. There really wasn’t any comparison. The people asking for $7 or less had very little to offer, and those asking for $5 or less had samples that were barely legible. I’m certain that’s not true for every freelancer out there, people do have to start somewhere, but that was from the same site that these people were going for the $3 articles.

  12. James Chartrand - JCM Ent. (32 comments.) on December 26th, 2007 12:08 pm

    @ LS - I never argued the common saying, “You get what you pay for.” I believe that to be true, my own experience showing that lower price equals lower quality. I’ve been in this business far too long.

    What I said - and what you misread - is that “if you could get the SAME product…” You claimed the people who buy cheap work are idiots. That’s a sweeping, generalizing statements that says : All people who pay very little are idiots.

    That is the statement that I have issues with. People who pay low rates for the SAME quality are not idiots by any means. There are many, many buyers who know full well what quality a $50 article holds and these people have done a LOT of searching to find writers who will do that same article with the same quality for much less. They are very much the businessman. They achieve the same goal for a fraction of the cost.

    So. The moral of the story here is to use caution when commenting and reading other people’s comments. Read the words that are there, not the words that aren’t. :)

    And to be very clear, please note that I fully support fair wages for high-quality content, and that I believe there are strong benefits to buyers for buying content that is of higher quality. I am not saying that price equals quality.

  13. LS (23 comments.) on December 26th, 2007 5:44 pm

    I did read it, I just disagree with it. The quality is not the same, so the question doesn’t have any baring. It’s not like retail, where you can buy a specific brand for a different price in a different store. There is no secret way to get $50 original articles for $3, just like a Rolex bought off the street for $10 will have the quality you’d expect a $10 watch to have.

    I was part of the WAHM conversation and read the sales letter for the ebook in question. I suggest reading what I wrote again and seeing that it is specific to the situation. The “businesspeople” who think they’re getting the same quality are kidding themselves, probably from lack of experience.

  14. James Chartrand - Web Content Writer Tips (32 comments.) on December 26th, 2007 6:08 pm

    @ LS - You’re talking specifics surrounding one event, I’m talking generals surrounding a concept. The post uses a specific as an example, but discusses general practices. That’s what I’m addressing - the general, and not the specific.

    You’re probably right about the people kidding themselves in this specific event, though. It’s often the way of things.

    As for “secret ways” to get $50-quality articles for $3? It’s very easy, unfortunately. Predator buyers who grab a newbie writer who doesn’t know any better do very well.

    This is one of the reasons I find it important to stress to new writers and writers who don’t go take the time to learn more that there is, indeed, jobs that pay far more and that these lesser jobs are best left on the shelf. There is no need to write for sweatshop rates or low fees unless it is charity work. Even building a reputation or portfolio doesn’t involve this type of financial abuse.

  15. LS on December 26th, 2007 6:51 pm

    But how good is a newbie writer? You probably can get a new writer for cheap, but they will be inexperienced. People with experience in print writing getting started in web writing are probably not going to be interested in sweatshop rates. I know I wasn’t, and I hear that from a lot of people making the transition. They expect a far higher rate.

  16. James Chartrand - Web Content Writer Tips (32 comments.) on December 26th, 2007 7:00 pm

    There is a difference between being an experienced writer - one who knows the ins and outs of the industry, the business surrounding writing, particular needs and demands of buyers, going the extra mile, various types of writing that can be done - and one who has full talent, skill and ability to write well.

    Anyone can stumble onto the Internet hoping to make money writing. There is no need for print writing experience or any particular experience at all. These are the people who get taken for a ride - badly. Many, many new writers on the Internet do not come from a print writing offline background.

  17. Courtney on December 27th, 2007 6:35 pm

    I think the bottom line is that it’s our responsibility as experienced writers to open the eyes of the newbies out there and help them realize that $3 per article is not fair, and not the norm. Many of the people that ask me question about writing are like James said - no previous print writing experience, no concept of what the market is like.

    Business people who are looking for $3 articles are going to find them, because there will always be newbies to this industry. But hopefully we can get the word out to others to stop accepting these wages. Whenever I’ve written for a lower wage (never this low), I’ve been frustrated and felt burnt out. I’m sure many of these writers who are eager to accept these wages because it’s *some* money feel the same way after a while. They get frustrated and feel like there is nothing else out there.

    It’s important to stick to your guns. A writing friend of mine recently saw a post on a forum for a person asking for 10 articles for $20. Then this same poster pmmed her and asked her for a quote. She quoted her standard rate of $20 per article, and asked if he’d like to proceed. She got the job.

    I’ve tried outsourcing a few projects. It’s hard to find quality writers sometimes….and when you find one, you’ll stick with them no matter what the price.

  18. Melissa Donovan (5 comments.) on December 28th, 2007 10:46 pm

    Well, I seem to have arrived a day late at a very interesting discussion. I’m not a dollar short though, so I’ll add my two cents.

    $3 for a 500 word article is nothing more than an insult to any decent writer. It would be far more profitable to write such an article for free and use it to boost one’s portfolio than to collect a mere $3 for it. I would encourage even talentless beginners to refuse such a low fee.

    Having said that, I believe the trend we are seeing is actually the result of overseas outsourcing. $3 goes a lot further in India than it will here in the U.S., so for some, it’s not a bad wage.

    It’s a competitive market for writers, and the Internet has added a complicated global twist. As for me, I never visit bidding sites and find it far more worthwhile to spend time preening my own web site and portfolio, and finding creative ways to draw clients to my work.

    Melissa Donovan
    Writing Forward

  19. Courtney on December 30th, 2007 3:39 am

    Agreed! The rates on bidding sites can be appalling. Unfortunately, the report that sparked this whole $3 resurgence suggested that buyers visit specifically work at home mom related forums and get cheap content. It was under the guise of “we’re doing work at home moms a favor.”

  20. James Chartrand - Web Content Writer Tips (32 comments.) on December 30th, 2007 10:28 am

    That does suck, Courtney. Unfortunately, I think the perception of work at home moms is just that - cheap labor from frazzled women who can’t get a real job.

    (Before someone hauls off and shoots me, I don’t subscribe to that line of thinking. And I know very well that mothering is a full-time job and then some.)

    I’d meant to blog about this once - how I think that WAHMs, by clearly stating they are WAHMs, increase the stereotype perception. When you think of “mother”, chances are, you’re not thinking of some woman in a suit at her computer. When you think of “work at home”, you’re probably imagining… well, a home, and not an office that nearly crackles with professionalism.

    So what happens? People think WAHMs aren’t really professionals and that they’re cheap service to get a job done.

    I know plenty of WAHMs and not one publicizes it. They realize that the label does them more harm than good. Not one works at $3 an hour, either.

  21. LS (23 comments.) on December 30th, 2007 9:07 pm

    I wholeheartedly agree. I never mention that I am a mother, or even that I’m a woman when I apply for anything. I haven’t put it anywhere on my blog or my sample site. I use a first initial for almost everything, and most of my clients assume I’m a man. That’s fine with me. I just want them to see the work.

  22. Courtney on December 30th, 2007 11:33 pm

    I agree with James as well (and I think you did blog about something like this recently). I think that keeping your professional and wahm life seperate is important. I just advised someone to move their portfolio off of their wahm blog and onto a seperate domain.

    My old blog was a mixture of mom stuff and writing, and quickly realized I wasn’t doing myself any favors. Although I’m open about having kids, it’s not one of the things I’ll bring up with a client. If you really wanted to stalk me, you’d see that I am a mom, but I don’t advertise it.

  23. Deb Ng (3 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 12:24 am

    By accepting these gigs, writers are pretty much offering their approval of low wages. I know everyone has to start somewhere, but the same writers really can’t complain about the lack of high paying jobs when they’re accepting a couple of bucks in payment. Unless writers stop accepting $3 jobs, people who hire writers won’t be inclined to raise their wages/

  24. LS (23 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 2:12 am

    Did I? If I did, I’m taking it out…

  25. James Chartrand - Web Content Writer Tips (32 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 2:40 am

    Hear, hear.

  26. Amy (23 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 2:52 am

    You get what you paid for. ‘Nuff said.

  27. Diana Walker (4 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 2:54 am

    Very interesting reading your blog, Courtney, and the comments.

    I write a lot of my own work, but I also use writers on a regular basis, and I value and pay for, the services of a talented and reliable, professional writer (like you!).

    I think it is really a “poverty mentality” when someone would even think of paying only $3 per article — what goes around comes around, and really no-one wins in that scenario.

    Diana Walker, Cravings Coach

  28. TomG. (7 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 4:48 am

    Hello,

    I am one of those people that bought the eBook on getting $3 articles. I was intrigued because I am having so much trouble getting my websites off the ground. I would like to tell you what the other side of the story is here. There are many people out there like me that write very well, but cannot write enough content to make more than a few dollars a month per website. We need at least 15 pages of content. If we pay someone $5 per article, that assignment is worth $75. Now I make about $5/month on a new website if I am lucky. That means that I am gambling $75 a pop hoping that someday I will make that back. See, I personally am not trying to exploit anyone. I am just up to my eyeballs in bills. Now I know someone who routinely sells their services for this $75. He does between 2 to 4 of these article packs a day. That nets him $150 to $300 per day. His calendar is full. That means he is making between $4500 and $9000 per month. Are those the slave wages you were talking about? He drives the Mercedes and I drive the Ford. Just letting you all know that there is another side to this story.

    TomG.
    http://www.tmg4apc.com

  29. Courtney on December 31st, 2007 5:42 am

    Thanks for sharing your perspective Tom. I understand that you want to keep your costs low to create sites, but I have a hard time believing that someone is capable of producing solid content at 45 pages per day (2 to 4 article packs per day as you stated). Even if he wrote an article every 30 minutes, that’s a work day of 22.5 hours.

    If paying a reasonable wage is too expensive, and I’m saying this to all marketers, not just you, then writing content yourself should be the next step. Steve Wagenheim and Josh Spaulding both have some excellent material on writing content quickly.

    Instead of “gambling” on a niche, write a few articles first and then once it starts earning money, pay a ghostwriter an honest wage to help increase and grow your site.

  30. Amy (23 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 5:55 am

    You will never flip a niche site with sub-standard content. Content will always be king, period. Pay one or two professional writers a decent wage, as Courtney suggested, and you will be rewarded with mondo link bait.

    I’m lucky enough to work for a few fellas with that work philosophy and it’s making us all a good amount of money. $3 for an article? Bah. Add a few zeros to that, ladies and gentleman. That’s what the big boys pay for major link bait.

    You all need to let that self-defeating, “I have to start somewhere” philosophy go now! Stop accepting a slave’s wage and these fly-by-night SEOs will disappear. Real professionals will pay real money for premium content.

    It breaks my heart when I see people preying on WAHMs, too. We are professionals, even if we have LEGOs at our feet while we’re typing.

    Viva la Revolucion!

  31. TomG. (7 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 6:20 am

    Hello Courtney,

    These are small articles which are built around a theme. No, he would not be able to write 45 pages of solid content on different topics, that most certainly is true and I am not debating this point. These articles are short and straight to the point. They answer specific questions that users are looking for information. They also point to other more complete sources, most often.

    TomG.
    http://www.tmg4apc.com

  32. Courtney on December 31st, 2007 6:27 am

    Hi Tom,

    Thanks again for the comments. There really wasn’t a need to clarify, because I know exactly what type of articles you are talking about. They are the bread and butter for a lot of writers because they work well for lots of different types of sites and marketing methods. I’m sure most of us are familiar with the “write about these 10 keywords” list we get from our clients.

    I agree…we’re definitely not talking about Pulitzer prize winning stuff, or full on magazine articles. Solid content=written coherently, making sense, correct research, proofread etc. That’s still 20 to 30 minutes of time, on the lower end if someone knows the topic well. I still have a really hard time believing that it is possible to write 45 or more. If you are, as you stated elsewhere, doing the work yourself then you know this already.

    $5 is a good starting point if someone has never written before, or is brand new. But I encourage, and will continue to encourage, writers to move quickly from that point because there is more work out there at a better rate.

  33. James Chartrand - Web Content Writer Tips (32 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 11:47 am

    @ Tom - I understand your position, and thanks for coming to speak up about it. I think it’s important that providers know the other side of the coin as well.

    We have that other side of the coin. We have to invest in our own website, blog, an ebook, etc, and we have to redesign frequently as our business grows. Sure, we do our own writing, but the time that we take to write costs us exactly what we charge. Same thing with graphic design and our ebook, Write for the Web.We invested $1,000 in production of that ebook.

    But that’s the thing - we invested in our business. Harry and I have both used our credit cards, our personal money, and sank back income into the business to help it grow. We’ll be sinking more again with a new site redesign - because if you want to make money, you have to spend money. My cutbacks come in other areas, and my wallet hurts sometimes, but my business does well. I understand and know your frustration at wanting to get your business off the ground, but I think you should ask yourself, “How much is this worth to me,” instead of “How much will this cost me?”

    Take the $75, buy two high-quality articles instead of 50 cheap ones, and test the results.

    On a side note, the rates, timelines, turnarounds, and quantities you mentioned suggest that your writer isn’t doing something very ethical. That was driven home by the mention of his vehicle - let me assure you that most writers do not drive a Mercedes - not even a used one. You may want to question how the goods you receive are obtained.

  34. Deb Ng (3 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 12:24 pm

    You know, I’ve been a member of the WAHM board for years. For years I’ve been having conversations about my fellow WAHMs about low wages. In fact, I started FWJ with its jobs listings because of my fellow WAHMs, I wanted to show them they didn’t have to settle for $3 jobs. While there were a few who agreed, there were plenty more who told me to mind my own business.

    Here’s what I think (and I realize it won’t make me popular): Too many people view freelance writing as one of those “you too can work at home” type deals. The people who run the content mills convince unskilled writers they can make a living writing from home. The problem is the people who pay for quality content won’t hire writers who don’t know how to write - but the $3 per article content guys will. Part of the problem is the “anyone can do it” mentality.

    The other part of the problem is that the WAHMs would much rather listen to the person promising them the opportunity to earn hundreds of dollars a month than me or you. Another thing I found interesting about these situations is that many of these writers didn’t look at it as $3 an article or $3 an hour. They looked at it as $200 a week, that sounds ever more attractive, doesn’t it?

    I made many a WAHM angry when I suggested they can earn more from their writing than $2.50 from Associated Content or another content mill so I pretty much stopped talking about it over there.

    The people who pay writers $3 aren’t interested in this side of the argument. They’re not interested in quality content. They’re just interested in their bottom line.

    Now, do I think my WAHM status hurts me? No. I don’t mention it in cover letters or job interviews because I never believe personal details belong. But I don’t shy away from it either. If someone offers me an insulting wage because he feels I’m an untalented WAHM I thank him for the offer and move on. It’s the WAHMs who accept these offers than make it hard on us. And it’s the WAHMs who have the power to change this image. Don’t just take any job because it’s “work at home”, don’t get into writing if you can’t write, don’t accept wages online that you wouldn’t accept in the outside world, and always, always, be professional no matter how frazzled you are.

    I’m sorry Courtney, I can go on about this forever and I don’t mean to harp. I fought long and hard to become a respected writer, I wish more WAHMs would consider their dignity when accepting offers.

    Thanks for opening this topic for discussion.

  35. Freelance Writing Jobs » Blog Archive » A Little Bit About Responsibility on December 31st, 2007 1:17 pm

    […] to Courtney at Web Writing Info for bringing this situation to […]

  36. TomG. (7 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 3:33 pm

    James,

    I posted on the blog and at the WAHM forum to simply say that there are people in this business getting started who don’t have the money and don’t have very good writing skills. They need help, and in the beginning, they would not survive without the newbies who will take the low paying assignment. Over at the WAHM forum, I see many WAHM’s recommending the low paying content sites while spitting on the people who read Adam’s report for offering the same wage. Yes, I agree that paying for low quality content will get low quality results. When you are prospecting, though, you need a large volume before you can see which areas are bringing results and that is something I know from experience. Having one site with two articles will certainly not help the newbie.

    TomG.

  37. TomG. (7 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 3:38 pm

    Oh, and as an aside, I was going to offer a few low paying jobs to find some decent writers who would make the journey with me. I intended to start low and if the websites took off, I was going to increase the pay to respectable levels as the profits appeared to support this. Since this firestorm started over at the WAHM boards, I am not sure I will make this offer. It seems that content seekers have been tarred with the same brush. Like I said, if you want it done right, sometimes you have to do it yourself.

    TomG.

  38. James Chartrand - Web Content Writer Tips (32 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 3:52 pm

    Tom, starting a business isn’t a situation where all people involved in its building should pay for the low budget. It’s the business owner’s responsibility to assume the obligation of proper startup funding and investment without penalizing the workers. If a person doesn’t have the budget or skills to build that business properly, then he or she should find a way to get the budget or learn the skills. That’s what operating a business - online or offline - should be. When did online business become a place where cutting corners and cheaping out became options? Hard work and effort is the only way to success in anything, I feel.

    Regarding the idea of starting for no or low pay on the hope of possible future improvements that may or may pan out, it’s unfair to ask someone to hitch a ride and wait and see on a promise. While they work hard and hope for better, they could be earning better wages elsewhere. So again, that’s penalizing someone else for personal benefit.

    I’m not saying there isn’t an entrepreneurial, calculated risk involved and sometimes, people do make investments of their time for benefits that may or may not happen down the road. I do that myself. But I am very educated and when I do take these risks, my family’s well being or my own personal income that goes to support them isn’t at stake.

    That’s not the case with many new or ignorant writers, and they can have expectations that are unrealistic or just hope a little too much without being aware that the risk of loss is very high.

    By the way - I’m not picking on you by any means. It’s an interesting discussion and we have two different points of view. Feel free to continue talking and please don’t think that I’m arguing with you. I’m interested in your thoughts and opinions.

  39. TomG. (7 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 5:59 pm

    James, you make two interesting points. On the one hand, the business owner should take responsibility for funding the business and the implication is that they should not take advantage of the best deal available while on the other hand the writer may not know the risk (even though they are getting paid) of not availing themselves of higher wages and you excuse them for that, even implying that the business owner is also responsible for this. I submit to you that many people who are complaining about low wages are not working at all. Those people should avail themselves of the jobs that come along so they are at least earning something and getting to know the business they are in. Many posters at the WAHM forum think that they should start at the top. I have NEVER started a business or taken a job where I started at the top. They need a reality check.

    TomG.

  40. James Chartrand - Web Content Writer Tips (32 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 6:50 pm

    Tom - we agree here. And while I’d like to say that I have only one view on the topic, I don’t. There are many levels and factors involved in the matter and it’s not always easy to draw a straight line.

    I often encourage writers to work as opposed to starve. So yes, in the case of working versus self pride, I’ll always lean in the direction of working. If there is nothing else out there and you need the money that badly, do it.

    Don’t get me wrong - I’m not on the “high pay at all costs” extreme. I do often mention to writers who get lofty and arrogant to come on back down to earth where the rest of us live. Many a writer is on the other end of the spectrum, treating writing like some work of art to be admired and commanding reverent respect … I don’t really subscribe to that school of thought. I’m somewhere in the middle at “fair to both parties involved.”

    What I don’t agree with is people who don’t explore what the options are or work towards bettering themselves to obtain better working conditions and pay. And there are many, many people like that (usually WAHMs, though I’m not sure why this is.)

    I think people all need to start somewhere, and that’s usually the bottom of the ladder. They learn, they improve, they take some hard knocks, and they move up. Honestly, there’s something wrong when people stagnate in a bad position.

    I also don’t agree with people who choose the fast buck over the more ethical ways of working.

    Selling drugs is fast, easy money. No one should sell drugs at the expense of all those involved because of the moral issues involved. Likewise, selling uber-cheap content that is plagarized, rewritten and spun is fast, easy money. But no one should sell uber-cheap content at the expense of the terrible effects this has on many levels.

    Business owners aren’t responsible for the writers’ choice. They are, however, responsible for doing the best they can with what they have and in the best way possible to improve worldwide conditions. If all that online business owners can offer is cheap and second rate because they shrug and say, “Well, that’s all I can do right now,” then I don’t see them moving up the ladder any faster than the WAHMs who say, “All I should accept is crappy pay.”

    I’ll agree on a third thing: Many, MANY people do need a reality check and a good dose of conscience. That goes on both sides, buyers and writers alike.

  41. TomG. (7 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 7:19 pm

    Well, now it seems that we are on the same page.

    TomG.

  42. James Chartrand - Web Content Writer Tips (32 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 7:20 pm

    *grin* Ah, but have we chinked our beers together and claimed world monopoly?

  43. TomG. (7 comments.) on December 31st, 2007 7:36 pm

    Yes, I clink my virtual beer. As to world monopoly, who needs the hassle? I would be satisfied to rule my small chunk of the world.

    TomG.

  44. Take Your Writing Career Into Your Own Hands | Hope Writes on January 2nd, 2008 10:20 am

    […] have to tell you that as a freelance writer, this truly bothers me. And I’m not the only one it bothers. I suppose it bothers me so much because I’ve been in those shoes. I know what it feels like […]

  45. creativelyselfemployed.com (1 comments.) on January 3rd, 2008 5:04 am

    Great topic!

    I believe that everyone has to start somewhere, but I don’t think anyone has to start that low. If it goes below minimum wage, I would rather go pump gas to make money.:)

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